Moto GP and the tyres - Automotive Engineering Forum. Crp Technology

eragon · #1 (**permalink**) 25 July 2007

Hello,

please can you give me your opinion about the technical situation of the tyres in Moto GP.
Is really similar, for me, to the F1 situation of last year and is not so correct that the tyres be so critical for the performance and efficiency of the bikers.

Can be possible to think for the future a unique tyres supplier to have more bikers that run for the victory EVERY race?

Is the same situation that some years ago has been adopted in SBK world championship. Is it so wrong according to you?

Yes I know it,
I will perhaps be accused of being too much fan of the Honda motorcycles or of Valentino; nevertheless I am convinced that the actual situation is not the most spectacular.

thanks
eragon

lulu · #2 (**permalink**) 26 July 2007

I think that if there was a unique tyres supplier it would be the best solution, every rider would only have to think about make its best!!! and the differences often are two big.. it's not fair..

arron · #3 (**permalink**) 27 July 2007

I think that single tyre manufacturer rules are a disaster for top flight motorsport. Take WSB they lap slower than BSB, & it prevents wildcard entry as the wildcards have to use the control tyre.

Bikes are very different, firing sequence, number of pistons etc. Each need a different approach to get the best grip.

By forcing everyone to use the same tyre you standardize an important component in bike setup & design. By allowing different manufacturers to use different tyres you get the flex designed into the tyre to work with the flex in the swingarm, forks and chassis. This means that you will probably get different approaches to chassis design as a designer can say e.g. we will use a tyre with such a such construction. This benifits engineering and makes the race more fun to watch.

Plus at the top level is diversity that we want, it will never be a level playing field.

My thoughts

Arron
(I race a Suzuki GSXR1000 at club level, & I hate being restricted to a certain tyre)

eragon · #4 (**permalink**) 30 July 2007

hi arron,

many thanks for your opinion from expert....but please I have a question about your suggestions.

What about the bikers like Pedrosa, Hyden, Rossi and others that are disappointed because they lose several time per lap and 3/4 of this "bad performance" is caused from Michelin Tyres?? Do you think that it's possible to reach a better solution apart the unique tyres?

You race so if you know that your bike and your "right wrist" is not slower respect who is faster than you, but you use slower tyres, what's in your mind??

eragon

livia · #5 (**permalink**) 30 July 2007

Arron welcome!

I do agree with you! All top motorsport series have to be completely free, this is the only way to have true innovation, hi-tech challenge...and true pure show and fun!
The only restrictions have to be those related to safety....and only real technicians should file the rules, instead of lawyers and politicians that understand absolutely nothing of safety, hi-tech, show, fun and racing!
Constructors have to innovate and bring the best vehicle on the track, and if they aren’t able to chose the best tyre company and work with them, that’s their problem. Riders have to do their job, and try to reach the best team. This is fair competition, and therefore real show and fun!!

Cheers, Livia

eragon · #6 (**permalink**) 30 July 2007

ok Livia,

what you say can be also sharing,
but personally is think that is not so fair and fun for MGP "show" when for tyres problem Vermulen that in average run 0.5 sec. slower than Dani and Vale , in Laguna Seca been 0.5 sec faster and Casey (that is really fast) but not 1 sec pro lap faster than Vale.

This is comprehensible and sharing about tech development but absolutely no fun.

MGP isn't F1, where the overtaking are only on the pit lane and we have to wait the crazy weather to see McLaren or Ferrai with some difficulty and RedBull 3rd to the end.

No, sorry but without overtaking the motorsport is not fun.

eragon

lulu · #7 (**permalink**) 31 July 2007

personnally I'm sort of a rider too.. and seeing all these big differences, too big differences between all the tyres.. I think the best would be to have unique tires supplier.. I would prefer it, speaking as a rider, because everybody would be in the same situation when the tires are great or not so good....

arron · #8 (**permalink**) 31 July 2007

Why do you want to make everything equal?

You say that tyres cost rider a 0.5 sec per lap. So should all bikes have the same power? the same torque, all riders must weigh 73kg?

Pedrose has an advantage due to his weight, Stoner has an advantage due to his ducati having more power, Rossi has the advantage of experiance.

A while ago Mitchelin was the tyre to have, today its not, why? is it that michelin forgot how to make tyres? No Bridgestone got better, why? because they had to if they were to compete. The progress of development is directly related to the competition that exists.

If you want to test riders & not machines then you have to abandon MotoGP and go for a single bike race series. Like the Virgin Mobile Cup in BSB. But this type of racing is only fun to watch because you have young, win it or bin it riders and the level of experiance is low (compared top BSB etc) so mistakes happen.

Why is BSB faster than WSB? Because they have true factory development & tyres.

MotoGP must not be stifeled by technological restrictions in key area's. I accept that Titanium is restricted in it's use with in MotoGP, fine, but in it's self it does not prevent chassis development. Tyres, it's such a vital part of the suspension & transmission of a bike that you should not make any world class series single tyre only. If you do then you should also say all manufacturers must use Ohlins's suspension.

Riders have different styles, Engineers have different abilities / area's of expertize, this calls for different approches, chassis, tyres, suspension etc..

If you want everyone to circulate with an equal chance of winning then it wont be MotoGP it will be Virgin Mobile Cup, not the world's fastest motorcylces around a closed circuit.

my thoughts

Arron

livia · #9 (**permalink**) 23 August 2007

Arron!! I do agree with you on EVERYTHING, thanks, I couldn't explain better what you explain!!
...oh, yes, i don't like any kind of limitation, therefore i still wonder why titanium alloys are banded, since titanium is one of the best materials...and very safe (predictable)! and for sure cheaper and safer than carbon lamination for example...that is not banded!
Someone told: The secret of Happiness is Freedom and The secret of Freedom is COURAGE!!! Now I say: The secret of FUN is Freedom and The secret of Freedom is COURAGE!!!

Livia

The Nutty Professor · #10 (**permalink**) 01 September 2007

I am by no means a Rossi fan, but he said it best. Even with the old system each manufacturer had a chance to show his best on race day. Bridgestone was not that far behind Michelin at the end of last season. Dunlop appears to be unwilling to spend the time or resources to met the challenge. They have domination on the national level and are leaving the international to the other companies. I have to confess I am a Hayden fan and this year has shown what the boy is made of. His lip isn't on the ground eventhough he's been belittled by Honda. A return to the old system with support to the none winning companies and a mandate that no matter what "ALL" tires are made available to everyone even the experimental ones. If the entire field can not be supplied leave the tire on the truck.